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"Bus Talk" Forum

Welcome to our new forum page. The old forum has been replaced by this new one, so a few things may be different.  This forum is a great place to talk about recent projects, ask questions, share bus-related information such as parts sources, etc. Thank you in advance for your participation.

1953 GMC - General Axle Swap, Wheels/Tires & 4x4 Info/Questions
Last Post 17 Mar 2011 04:04 AM by bulletproof. 3 Replies.
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beachbumUser is Offline
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31 May 2010 07:02 PM  
Hello Fellow Busers,

I am a new bus owner and have started to ever loving (and expensive!) journey of converting my Bus to a Road Friendly & Safe traveller.

I am starting from the ground up with Tires/Wheels, Axles/Brakes, Leaf Springs, and adding power steering...

The Bus came had already been upgraded to a Chevy 384ci Motor and I added a New Edelbrock Carburetor(Manifold Adapter from Summit Racing) and Dual Flow Master exhaust. She runs great!

Well, here goes on the Axle stuff... your help/comments would be greatly appreciated as I do not want to re-invent the wheel if I don't have to ;)

Here is a site from the Dana Website with their actual weight ratings:
http://www.dana.com/wps/wcm/connect/7099110041f72800a232aaccfdf8ffab/dext-OHSCondSp.pdf?MOD=AJPERES

Skip right to Page 6 & 7 for the axles we are talking about.

My Bus has a Max Load Rating at 22,000 lbs according to the plate inside. I am not sure if that makes it a 1 ½ or 2 Ton truck. From the research that I did, this frame was also used as a Dump Truck, a Fire Engine and a Semi-Truck…
It even has the Hi-Lo Mega Heavy Duty Rear Axle for really heavy pulling. Basically, Total overkill! Yehaw!

You may want to put your Bus on a scale, though… The current weight of my bus is 6,700 lbs. That is less than a Dodge Ram 3500 Ext Cab Dually… by a couple hundred pounds…

I have guest-imated that when I ditch the huge rear axle, old school Duallies, and overkill Leaf Springs… and I replace them with sensible axles, Single Rear Wheels and New more appropriate leaf springs… that I will lose another 700-1,000 lbs…

That will put my Dry Weight at @ 6,000… not too shabby… After I complete the RV conversion, I should come in around 9-10k lbs with all tanks full and people, animals and supplies.

Although I don’t currently plan to Tow Anything, I am going to plan on having a 10,000 lb Max Tow rating… which is way more than I would need for a Jeep, small boat, or some Jet Skis…

Here is where I am headed on the axles:

Front:
I am going with a 4x4 axle. I am not hooking it up initially, but will down the road.
Dana 60 – should be plenty for me
Rear:
Dana 80 – Again, should be plenty for me

Wheels:

In regards to Super Singles…

Wheel Bolt Conversions to convert the 8 bolt to a Truck 10-bolt for the above axles are sold by:
http://www.chromewheel.com
http://www.americanforcewheels.com
$550-$650 e@

Alcoa rims seem to be the best for Super Singles
$350-$400 e@

If NO Super Singles:
Any Heavy Duty Wheel will work
$250 e@

Tires:

Super Singles

Rear Tire: 445/50 R22.5
This is a really cool looking tire that ends up 40” tall and 17.5” wide…
$475 e@ - Although the name brands are around $1,000, Chrome Wheels has a Chinese version for around $475e@

Front Tire: Depends on what size you want… I am going with wide tires for that deep dish look

If NO Super Singles:
This is where I am going to start as I am not sure I will need more and the price is right ;-)
Toyo 40x15.50 R20’s that have a 4,200 lb rating. Putting them front and rear.
$500 e@

Any Suggestions?
AdminUser is Offline
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31 May 2010 10:15 PM  
You've done great, brother! This is some great info, you have collected, thank for sharing it. I think you're right, a Dana 60 in front should be strong enough unless you are going to really punish it, bolt on huge, tall tires, going rock climbing in Moab, or going to add a diesel or other really heavy engine.

I had a friend that had a 4x4 1 ton van 1 ton with a 6.9 litre diesel. You'd be surprised how heavy those diesels are. Anyway, he had just a Dana 44 in front. It worked ok. He just went real slow offroad. Rock climbing was a bit off limits, too.

Yeah, I have the big 2 speed rear in my 54 Wayne Chevy, too. My 55 Wayne Ford has something else and smaller. The Chevy rear is definitely over kill, and a heavy sumbitch. The springs are really rigid. My bus came from Montana, and has tanks underneath that can drop sand in front of the rear wheels if one gets stuck. The original 2 speed in these buses has a 6:18 and 8:18 ratio in them, if I am not mistaken. I presently have 20 x 8.25 bias tires ( came with 7.50's so this raised the overall gear ratio a little ) on split rims on my 54 Wayne Chevy. Somehow I got it up to almost 70 miles per hour with the stock 4 speed manual, according to the speedo.

I replaced my front springs with the stock amount of leafs plus a 3 inch life, but my end up removing one or two leafs before I am done. It sits up a little higher in front than in the back.

You know, I even considered using the rear out of a 2 1/2 ton AM General truck. (deuce and a half). These axles are wicked strong, give added ground clearance too, but may be too low of gearing for you. (6:18). I have been wanting to buy one of those deuce trucks, but the old lady keeps rolling her eyes and saying no. One of these days I tell ya...

With the Rockwell's, the front axle width is the problem. Those trucks are wider than these buses are. Plus, it takes a lot of lift to clear that big gear box in top of the axles. For the street, it's a bit impractical. If you don't use hydraulics to steer, you can experience bump steer ( so I am told). Not sure if I can convert them to the 10 bolt pattern we want. I would imagine you can.

All in all, the Dana 80- in back is probably more practical, and cheaper. Not as strong, but lighter. As you may know, it's best to keep the vehicle as light as possible for off-roading. Too heavy and you just sink and squash everything. Plus, it's expected that one treads lightly.

They keep closing down parkland due to damage from off-roading ( motorcycles, quads, trucks, etc) destroying it.

I haven't had much money lately, so progress has been slow. Right now I am trying to put the motor back together in my 55 Wayne Ford. It' s got an old 239 cid Y block. I believe it's the first year of the overhead valve 239 ( before that they were flat heads). It's got just enough power to pull the hat off your head ( if I rev her up). I am just trying to keep the old girl running so I can drive it around town. It's pretty congested here in Pinellas County, Fl and I am afraid to take it out on the road and experience road rage if it quits. ( Plus tow trucks want a fortune to haul these buses).


I'd like to eventually add a nice burly front bumper with a brush guard and winch, plus a stronger rear bumper with a strong hitch. I was thinking that I may build some of it out of composite instead of using steel. Kevlar and carbon fiber mix would make it nice and strong, and light. I am pretty handy with that stuff, too. I almost wish I could media blast the inside of my hood and front fenders and lay up a layer or two of Kevlar/carbon fiber fabric inside so I could stand on the hood and fenders if I want to without denting them.


Don't Let The"Nay-Sayers" Steal your Dream!

1955 Wayne Ford B500 Shorty
1954 Wayne Chevy 4500 Shorty
beachbumUser is Offline
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01 Jun 2010 02:26 AM  
Thanks man!

I looked at every option under the sun for axles… Including the Rockwell axles… Man that is total overkill for my needs… would be super cool… and super heavy… and super expensive!!

I will be hitting some dirt roads and want the 4x4 for rainy days and rough patches… but nothing like the power and strength of that Rockwell!!

My bus has a Chevy 5.7L 348ci motor in it. It is super strong and light. The Bus is actually TOO fast right now. I get around 15MPG after I put a new Edelbrock Carb and Dual Flowmaster Exhaust on her. It runs and sounds awesome! ( I found a manifold adaptor at Summit Racing for the Edelbrock… totally sweet!)
I will be putting in a 4.30 axle ratio… that should slow her down, give me better mileage and a highway cruising speed of 65MPH with ease…

The steering box is done, so I am adding Power Steering to her. The 348ci motor actually had a power steering option.

The rear axle/springs are easy. The COS(Center of Spring to Center of Spring) is 42”… The guys making my new leafs said it would not be a problem to move the leaf pads on any rear axle with this COS… and some are already at 42”…

The front is the tricky part, I agree.
My current COS is 27” and comes off the bottom of the frame. That is actually good news, though, as the Dodge 1993 Dana 60 front axle has a 32” COS… which is the exact measurement I would need if I moved the Frame Leaf Mounts to the outside of the frame… and adds a lot of stability as well by moving them out…

I can have them add lift to the front leafs if needed to clear the engine… and then match the rear at the same time… should not be a problem I don’t think..

This still gives me a 69” WMS (Wheel Mount Surface to Wheel Mount Surface) and causes a problem… although not bump steer as I can adjust with the Wheel’s Backspacing to cover that…
The problem is with the Wheel Wells…

I am going to move the current wheel wells out @ 4”… this will extend the front wheel wells out to the exact distance as the back wheels wells… Completely lining up both the front and the back wheels… should look sweet and give me the wheel well clearance along with the added stability and better ride…

I am looking at around $10-12k to do all of the above… so it will be a slow process…

mikeUser is Offline
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17 Mar 2011 04:04 AM  
im glad i found this post.i bought a 57 chevy bus and want to up date all the running gear..do the late model buses have the same track width?im thinking about power steering as well....
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